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	<title>Comments on: Agile development and retrospective coherence</title>
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	<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/</link>
	<description>Marc's weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Machiel Groeneveld</title>
		<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/comment-page-1/#comment-12354</link>
		<dc:creator>Machiel Groeneveld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 06:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/?p=153#comment-12354</guid>
		<description>Nice post indeed. I also presented on this &#039;do it by the book&#039; behaviour and Agile conformism. I look at it from a (product) adoption point of view. A set of Agile principles are great for early adopters and innovators, but the large masses desperately need very pragmatic and defined ways of doing things. Scrum + XP fits that need. This also means that, like any non-evolving product, it will die of relatively quickly, much like RUP did (did it die?). Mostly because there will be new ways to &#039;make your entire company competitive (tm)&#039; but also because few people will do Scrum + XP correctly. The large masses also have a tendency to use a watered down version of things (as apposed to &#039;tuned&#039;) and then blame the method for their failure. Perhaps they need some systems thinking to solve that problem ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post indeed. I also presented on this &#8216;do it by the book&#8217; behaviour and Agile conformism. I look at it from a (product) adoption point of view. A set of Agile principles are great for early adopters and innovators, but the large masses desperately need very pragmatic and defined ways of doing things. Scrum + XP fits that need. This also means that, like any non-evolving product, it will die of relatively quickly, much like RUP did (did it die?). Mostly because there will be new ways to &#8216;make your entire company competitive &#8482;&#8217; but also because few people will do Scrum + XP correctly. The large masses also have a tendency to use a watered down version of things (as apposed to &#8216;tuned&#8217;) and then blame the method for their failure. Perhaps they need some systems thinking to solve that problem <img src='http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David Harvey</title>
		<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/comment-page-1/#comment-12014</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/?p=153#comment-12014</guid>
		<description>Hi Marc,

Good to be reminded of this. Here in the UK we&#039;ve been lucky enough to benefit from David Snowden&#039;s presence. A number of folks in the agile community here and elsewhere - Joseph Pelrine, Steve Freeman, Rachel Davies amongst them - were Cynefin-accredited early on, and have been using these ideas effectively in practice and teaching for a number of years.

It&#039;s important to remember, though, that this is just one model of sensemaking or situational awareness - there are many many others. Sometimes they simply recast things in different ways - you can take your pick, for example, between probe/sense/respond and Scrum&#039;s empirical process control; sometimes they come at things from enough of a different angle to add a new dimension to your understanding (like the work of Ralph Stacey or Karl Weick). 

As technologists we&#039;re regularly beguiled by models (particularly when they use ego-boosting geek words like &quot;chaos&quot; and &quot;complexity&quot; :-) ).

Agreed, too, that retrospective-by-recipe is a surefire way to guarantee that a team won&#039;t get value out of the practice. It&#039;s the most fragile of the agile practices, it depends more than any on a level of maturity and self-awareness in both coaches and teams that I see all to rarely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Marc,</p>
<p>Good to be reminded of this. Here in the UK we&#8217;ve been lucky enough to benefit from David Snowden&#8217;s presence. A number of folks in the agile community here and elsewhere &#8211; Joseph Pelrine, Steve Freeman, Rachel Davies amongst them &#8211; were Cynefin-accredited early on, and have been using these ideas effectively in practice and teaching for a number of years.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to remember, though, that this is just one model of sensemaking or situational awareness &#8211; there are many many others. Sometimes they simply recast things in different ways &#8211; you can take your pick, for example, between probe/sense/respond and Scrum&#8217;s empirical process control; sometimes they come at things from enough of a different angle to add a new dimension to your understanding (like the work of Ralph Stacey or Karl Weick). </p>
<p>As technologists we&#8217;re regularly beguiled by models (particularly when they use ego-boosting geek words like &#8220;chaos&#8221; and &#8220;complexity&#8221; <img src='http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).</p>
<p>Agreed, too, that retrospective-by-recipe is a surefire way to guarantee that a team won&#8217;t get value out of the practice. It&#8217;s the most fragile of the agile practices, it depends more than any on a level of maturity and self-awareness in both coaches and teams that I see all to rarely.</p>
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		<title>By: Daði (blubberplinth)</title>
		<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/comment-page-1/#comment-12005</link>
		<dc:creator>Daði (blubberplinth)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/?p=153#comment-12005</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I&#039;ll order the book you recommended next time we order books.  I currently have &quot;The Solutions Focus&quot; waiting for me on my shelf, so it&#039;ll be interesting to compare and contrast when I get through both.

Look forward to your blog entries about retrospectives and changing conversations :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I&#8217;ll order the book you recommended next time we order books.  I currently have &#8220;The Solutions Focus&#8221; waiting for me on my shelf, so it&#8217;ll be interesting to compare and contrast when I get through both.</p>
<p>Look forward to your blog entries about retrospectives and changing conversations <img src='http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/comment-page-1/#comment-12003</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/?p=153#comment-12003</guid>
		<description>Thanks Daði, 

I have little experience with AI and Solutions Focus, so I can&#039;t say much about that. I know that Dave Snowden emphasizes that learning from failures and failure stories is much more effective than learning from success stories. He&#039;s also quite critical of approaches like AI. On the other hand, I think it&#039;s good to learn about multiple approaches realizing that there&#039;s no best way or set of best practices. Having more perspectives can be useful when moving in the complex domain.

I&#039;m still percolating about (agile) retrospectives as they are often performed and taught. I encounter teams that do retrospectives like following a kind of recipe - do the steps of the retrospectives, note stuff that works, keep doing that, change what doesn&#039;t work, basically assuming an ordered context. 

In my opinion, retrospectives in the complex domain work differently - the most important thing is then getting the stories out, sharing there, and having the right conversations. Retrospective structure, facilitation, program, planning, etc. are only a means (i.e. they work as boundaries, attractors, etc.) to let the conversations happen.

My ideas about retrospectives have recently been heavily influenced by the book &quot;Changing Conversations in Organizations: A Complexity Approach to Change&quot; by Patricia Shaw (highly recommended). I&#039;m still processing it and intend to write more blog entries about retrospectives and changing conversations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Daði, </p>
<p>I have little experience with AI and Solutions Focus, so I can&#8217;t say much about that. I know that Dave Snowden emphasizes that learning from failures and failure stories is much more effective than learning from success stories. He&#8217;s also quite critical of approaches like AI. On the other hand, I think it&#8217;s good to learn about multiple approaches realizing that there&#8217;s no best way or set of best practices. Having more perspectives can be useful when moving in the complex domain.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still percolating about (agile) retrospectives as they are often performed and taught. I encounter teams that do retrospectives like following a kind of recipe &#8211; do the steps of the retrospectives, note stuff that works, keep doing that, change what doesn&#8217;t work, basically assuming an ordered context. </p>
<p>In my opinion, retrospectives in the complex domain work differently &#8211; the most important thing is then getting the stories out, sharing there, and having the right conversations. Retrospective structure, facilitation, program, planning, etc. are only a means (i.e. they work as boundaries, attractors, etc.) to let the conversations happen.</p>
<p>My ideas about retrospectives have recently been heavily influenced by the book &#8220;Changing Conversations in Organizations: A Complexity Approach to Change&#8221; by Patricia Shaw (highly recommended). I&#8217;m still processing it and intend to write more blog entries about retrospectives and changing conversations.</p>
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		<title>By: Daði (blubberplinth)</title>
		<link>http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/agile-development-and-retrospective-coherence/comment-page-1/#comment-12000</link>
		<dc:creator>Daði (blubberplinth)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.piecemealgrowth.net/?p=153#comment-12000</guid>
		<description>Nice post Marc!

Even though I strongly believe in the XP practices I do think that Jurgen has a good point, though I don&#039;t agree with all his arguments or presuppositions.  And, I think you bring his point even more home for me with what you call retrospective coherence.  All the hoopla in the Agile community now about &quot;doing Agile correctly&quot; reminds me of Dale&#039;s excellent post on the Null Process (http://cwd.dhemery.com/2003/09/the_null_process/).

Another point you make came as a bit of a surprise to me.  About how focusing on what went well in retrospectives is not a recipe for success.  Well, nothing is a recipe for success in our complex environment, as CAS theory tells us, but does this mean you focus more on dealing with the negatives?  Am I on the wrong track learning about Appreciative Inquiry and Solutions Focus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Marc!</p>
<p>Even though I strongly believe in the XP practices I do think that Jurgen has a good point, though I don&#8217;t agree with all his arguments or presuppositions.  And, I think you bring his point even more home for me with what you call retrospective coherence.  All the hoopla in the Agile community now about &#8220;doing Agile correctly&#8221; reminds me of Dale&#8217;s excellent post on the Null Process (<a href="http://cwd.dhemery.com/2003/09/the_null_process/)" rel="nofollow">http://cwd.dhemery.com/2003/09/the_null_process/)</a>.</p>
<p>Another point you make came as a bit of a surprise to me.  About how focusing on what went well in retrospectives is not a recipe for success.  Well, nothing is a recipe for success in our complex environment, as CAS theory tells us, but does this mean you focus more on dealing with the negatives?  Am I on the wrong track learning about Appreciative Inquiry and Solutions Focus?</p>
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